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Wrestling with the Word: A Conversation with Terryl Givens

Plus: join us for Interfaith REPAIR, find help for your Come Follow Me study, join Thomas McConkie at a Community Gathering this month, and save the date for Restore 2026!

As we explore the Old Testament this year, we’ve found ourselves returning to a past conversation with our friend Terryl Givens. It felt grounding and expansive and we’re really excited to share it with you again.

The Old Testament can be incredibly rich—full of beauty, poetry, and profound spiritual insights. But it can also sometimes feel bewildering or even faith-shaking. We get glimpses of a loving, nurturing God—and turn the page to encounter a God that seems angry, even violent. It’s a text that raises big questions and invites us into deep wrestles. And maybe that’s part of its sacredness—that it pushes us into such honest, meaningful conversation.

In this episode, Terryl helps us navigate those tensions. Together, we ask: What is the Bible, really, and where did it come from? What do different translations of this text have to offer, and how can we engage with this scripture in a posture of reverence and discernment that allows for mystery, and honors the sacredness of the whole landscape.

We loved Terryl’s insights in this conversation, and we’re so grateful to revisit them now. Thanks so much for listening—we hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.

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How can I trust fallible prophets? What timely or important messages have recent prophets shared? How might I think about what God was doing with the Flood? How can I hold on to hope in God's promises? Is our Church the only true Church? How do we work together to build Heaven on Earth?

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What does it mean that "God will bless me for my faith and righteous desires"? What are covenants, really, and how might I think about them? How might I think about money? How does God lead me by the hand? How can I learn to be a peacemaker? How do I faithfully wrestle with the story of Abraham and Hagar?

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GOSPEL MEETS DHARMA MEDITATION RETREAT

Putting on the Mind of Christ and Exploring Buddha Nature Through Meditative Practice

Join Thomas McConkie and Lower Lights for a 3-day meditation retreat in Salt Lake City, Utah, February 27-March 1.

This retreat will include:

  • Copious amounts of meditation!

  • Mindful walking, eating, and interacting with like-hearted pilgrims

  • A nourishing lunch provided each day

  • Detailed instruction and lecture on Buddhist and Christian approaches to meditation

  • Time in nature

  • An ongoing invitation to weave yourself into a community that walks the inner path

You will love this meditation retreat if:

  • You sense that the Christian tradition is more expansive than what you were taught to believe.

  • You prefer soul work to Netflix, but damn if it ain’t hard doing soul work alone.

  • You want to bring wisdom teachings to life through shared reading and practice

  • You trust silence, nature, and community to help you heal and grow.

  • You want to suck the marrow out of life. (Hat tip to Henry David Thoreau).

Thomas McConkie has been practicing in Buddhist meditation and Christian contemplation for over 25 years. He holds a master’s degree from Harvard Divinity School in transformative practice and envisions a renaissance in consciousness on the Wasatch Front.

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JOIN THOMAS MCCONKIE FOR A COMMUNITY GATHERING

Wednesday, February 11th
7:30-9 pm
Bell Hall, SLC, Utah

Many of us have been formed—beautifully and painfully—by high-demand religion. We know its gifts: devotion, discipline, shared purpose, and lives oriented toward something greater than the self. We also know its shadows, especially when commitment becomes coercion, or belonging requires self-silencing.

At our upcoming community gathering in Salt Lake City, we will reflect together on the difference between high-demand religion and what we’re calling high-integrity spirituality—a way of practicing that preserves depth and rigor while honoring conscience, consent, and the authority of lived experience.

Through chant, sacred silence and shared inquiry, we’ll explore how to embrace the best of what we’ve been given without repeating its harm—and how a life of prayer and meditation can form courage, wisdom, and moral clarity for the world we’re being asked to meet now.

Come curious. Come as you are.

Love,
Thomas

Open to all. Registration required: https://lowerlightswisdom.org/classes/p/monthly-gathering-feb

*Please note that due to capacity restrictions at Bell Hall, registration is required for all who plan to attend. We will have a check in at the door to confirm registration, so we recommend arriving early if you can! Please plan on street parking.


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