In this session, two men sat down together: Tom Christofferson and Darius Gray. Both are devoted Latter-day Saints who know what it is to love the Church while also having experienced real marginalization within it.

Darius Gray is a Black Latter-day Saint who was baptized on December 26th, 1964 — fourteen years before the revelation that lifted the priesthood and temple ban. He entered the waters of baptism knowing he could not hold the priesthood, and he built his faith anyway. He helped found the Genesis Group, he waited, he worked. And on a day in June 1978, everything changed.

This June, we’re sitting with what that means.

There is something powerful in Darius’s story—his rootedness, his patience, his refusal to let institutional limitation become the ceiling of his faith.

Tom Christofferson, as a gay Latter-day Saint, knows something about that too.

What you’re about to hear is a conversation between two men who have walked and who are walking long roads, who are holding hard questions, and who are bearing witness to a God whose work continues to unfold in their lives.

It is warm and honest and full of hope. We think you’ll find, as we did, that it stays with you.

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Crucial Conversations Across Faith Divides: The Courage to Stay Connected

On June 16th, Joseph Grenny and Tucker Boyle invite you to an evening designed to equip you for some of the hardest conversations life brings, the kind that happen between loved ones when faith changes.

Joseph will draw from his decades of work with crucial conversations, walking us through practical principles for navigating high-stakes moments without losing the relationship or ourselves. Tucker will bring a somatic and nervous system lens to each principle, helping us notice what’s actually happening in our bodies when these conversations get hard. 

The insight at the heart of the evening: people on both sides of a faith transition share remarkably similar embodied experiences. The protective urges, the impulse to shut down or push harder, the way the body tightens before the words even come, these aren’t signs that something is wrong with you. They’re signals worth learning to read. This insight can open a pathway to patience, empathy and even compassion when in otherwise risky moments. 

All it takes is one party to a conversation with this capacity to dramatically alter its outcome.

RSVP

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Becoming One

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In this on-stage conversation, Steve, Alisha, and Ben share personal and vulnerable reflections on what it means to seek God when the road ahead feels uncertain, and the courage it takes to keep moving forward in faith. They explore belonging, revelation, and the complexity of spiritual life as they describe discerning and following paths that looked very different from one another’s and the ones they once expected—often amid the pain of being misunderstood.

This session was a powerful reminder that God is at work in every life, and that each person’s journey is sacred.

As Ben shares near the end of the conversation, “The stories that truly matter are the stories of the LGBTQ people that you know in your lives.” That’s our invitation this month. We hope this conversation opens the door to deeper connection with people in your own life whose paths may look different than your own.

We’re grateful to Steve, Alisha, and Ben for their vulnerability and wisdom.

You’ll hear Steve mention a short film at the beginning of this session that tells more of Alisha’s story. It’s beautiful and moving, and you can find a link below.

Souled of Other Stars

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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Crucial Conversations Across Faith Divides: The Courage to Stay Connected

On June 16th, Joseph Grenny and Tucker Boyle invite you to an evening designed to equip you for some of the hardest conversations life brings, the kind that happen between loved ones when faith changes.

Joseph will draw from his decades of work with crucial conversations, walking us through practical principles for navigating high-stakes moments without losing the relationship or ourselves. Tucker will bring a somatic and nervous system lens to each principle, helping us notice what’s actually happening in our bodies when these conversations get hard. 

The insight at the heart of the evening: people on both sides of a faith transition share remarkably similar embodied experiences. The protective urges, the impulse to shut down or push harder, the way the body tightens before the words even come, these aren’t signs that something is wrong with you. They’re signals worth learning to read. This insight can open a pathway to patience, empathy and even compassion when in otherwise risky moments. 

All it takes is one party to a conversation with this capacity to dramatically alter its outcome.

RSVP

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One Heart One Mind

Lower Lights Monthly Gathering - June 10

Friends…

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8 days ago

One Heart One Mind

Becoming One

I’m excited to announce to the broader community that Lower Lights will be hosting its first retreat in London this fall…

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a month ago · 1 like

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In this episode, Faith Matters co-founder Bill Turnbull joins Judge Thomas Griffith, an expert in constitutional law, to explore the Constitution and the rapid erosion of goodwill and trust in American politics, including among Latter-day Saints. Judge Griffith sees the possibility of a serious crisis and believes that Latter-day Saints can and must play a critical role in healing today’s divides.

We’ve also compiled lots of additional resources that we hope will help as you prepare for this special Sunday lesson—you can find those below. Thanks so much as always for listening, and we hope you enjoy the episode.

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What We Owe Each Other

Today we’re sharing with you the first two episodes of Article 13, a new narrative podcast from Faith Matters that brings together cutting-edge research and spiritual wisdom to offer blueprints for a better world…

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a year ago · 17 likes · 4 comments · Zachary Davis

Wayfare

Good News

Most of the news we see each day is negative. This constant stream of bad news fuels news avoidance, anxiety, and animosity — all of which harm us at a spiritual level. This episode proposes a new, spiritually healthy way of engaging with the news, looking at how we can use our media diets to help us fulfill our personal vocations and cultivate the virt…

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10 months ago · 3 likes · Zachary Davis

Wayfare

Won't You Be My Neighbor?

Community in America has grown harder to find. The spaces and institutions that used to gather neighbors together are in decline, while loneliness, depression, and other social ills are on the rise. As Seth Kaplan and Pete Davis explain, a healthy country is built on healthy relationships, and healthy relationships are built on commitment…

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5 months ago · 17 likes · Zachary Davis and Maria McNair

Wayfare

Why the Church Is as True as the Gospel

I was convinced when I was a youth that the most boring meeting in the Church, perhaps in the world, was a quarterly stake conference. In those days, they were held every three months and included at least two, two-hour sessions on Sunday. The most interesting highlights to us children were the quavery songs literally “rendered” by the “Singing Mothers…

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18 days ago · 1 like

Wayfare

Doing Away With Political -Ites

The last eight years have felt politically, culturally, and societally unsettled. We have seen this unrest in everything from the election of Donald Trump, to the storming of the US capital, to reactions to the murder of George Floyd, to the rise of identitarianism, all the way through …

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2 years ago · 23 likes · Tyler Johnson

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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Crucial Conversations Across Faith Divides: The Courage to Stay Connected

On June 16th, Joseph Grenny and Tucker Boyle invite you to an evening designed to equip you for some of the hardest conversations life brings, the kind that happen between loved ones when faith changes.

Joseph will draw from his decades of work with crucial conversations, walking us through practical principles for navigating high-stakes moments without losing the relationship or ourselves. Tucker will bring a somatic and nervous system lens to each principle, helping us notice what’s actually happening in our bodies when these conversations get hard. 

The insight at the heart of the evening: people on both sides of a faith transition share remarkably similar embodied experiences. The protective urges, the impulse to shut down or push harder, the way the body tightens before the words even come, these aren’t signs that something is wrong with you. They’re signals worth learning to read. This insight can open a pathway to patience, empathy and even compassion when in otherwise risky moments. 

All it takes is one party to a conversation with this capacity to dramatically alter its outcome.

RSVP

JOIN THOMAS MCCONKIE IN LONDON!

One Heart One Mind

Becoming One

I’m excited to announce to the broader community that Lower Lights will be hosting its first retreat in London this fall…

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a month ago · 1 like

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Karl Ebeling spent 33 years as a chemical engineer before feeling an undeniable pull back to the land and to a childhood love of farming that had never really left him. He combined his love of the earth with desire to help and heal and founded Eden Streets in 2020, a community farming initiative that helps individuals relaunch their lives and cultivate community through farming. Karl has watched first hand as the earth does her healing work in the souls of men and women experiencing homelessness, addiction, or disconnection.

Today, he joins us to talk about the gifts of creation, and what it might look like to, in Elder Causse’s words, “grow, enhance, and improve upon” them, and what that kind of stewardship does for our own souls.

I was deeply moved by Karl’s grounded wisdom, his reverence for the Earth and by the lessons he’s learning from the natural world about rhythms, relationship, belonging, and peace.

With planting season upon us, we hope this conversation inspires you to step outside, put your hands in the dirt, and experience the way the natural world is reaching out to heal you.

You can find more from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on caring for the Earth here.

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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LOOK AHEAD TO A SPECIAL FIFTH-SUNDAY DISCUSSION ON MAY 31

JOIN THOMAS MCCONKIE IN LONDON!

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Becoming One

I’m excited to announce to the broader community that Lower Lights will be hosting its first retreat in London this fall…

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a month ago · 1 like

SUBMIT YOUR ARTWORK FOR RESTORE 2026!

The Compass invites all artists to submit work for consideration for the Restore 2026 Art Exhibit. More details and submission form at the link below.

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From the very first pages of this book, Tish gives us language for something so familiar. She writes about aridity—those seasons of spiritual drought, exhaustion, or distance from God, when prayer feels flat, faith feels heavy, and the life we once found nourishing suddenly feels barren.

Then she introduces us to the ancient idea of acedia—what the Desert Fathers and Mothers sometimes called “the noonday demon.” It’s that restless belief that life with God would be easier somewhere else, sometime else, with different work, different people, a different church, or a new set of circumstances. It’s a restlessness that wants to escape the ordinary demands of love in search of some imagined future where spiritual highs are constant and faith feels effortless.

But Tish says these experiences of aridity and acedia aren’t signs that something has gone wrong. In fact, they are experiences that Christians throughout time have understood to be normal—even necessary—parts of spiritual maturity.

In this conversation, she helps us see that the invitation in these weary seasons is not to force our way back into those spiritual highs, but to stay with prayer, to stay with the ordinary practices that have formed disciples for centuries, often staying with imperfect communities and relationships even after the shine has worn off and the brokenness becomes visible.

She makes the case that that maturity often looks less like finding the perfect place, and more like learning how God meets us in imperfect places through patience, repair, and the slow work of love.

Tish is an Anglican priest and author known for her award winning books Liturgy of the Ordinary and Prayer in the Night. Her new book, What Grows in Weary Lands, was released this week and is available wherever books are sold. We are so grateful to Tish for coming on the podcast and we hope that you enjoy this conversation.

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Wayfare

The Wayfare Festival 2026

The quality of attention that we bring to the world changes what we find. In our time of mass distraction, artifice, and vice, we need to develop our capacities for spiritual discernment more than ever…

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a month ago · 3 likes · Zachary Davis

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LOOK AHEAD TO A SPECIAL FIFTH-SUNDAY DISCUSSION ON MAY 31

CATCH UP WITH SANCTUARY

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

Feminism, Authority, and Garments: A conversation with Deidre Green

As a feminist and lifelong member of the LDS faith, Deidre brings an important voice to this community. In this episode, she shares her own temple journey, which—like mine—began with challenges but ultimately evolved into something deeply meaningful. She describes the temple as a space that empowers her as a woman and expresses her belief that it holds …

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2 months ago · 1 like · Cecelia Proffit

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

Circumscribing Truth: Ritual and the Shared Search for the Divine with Dave Butler

Something I have wrestled with in my own faith journey is how I can simultaneously feel such a strong witness of restored gospel truths and ordinances while also recognizing immense truth and beauty in other religions. In this conversation, Dave shares his journey of developing a deep love and appreciation for all faith traditions, and how embracing oth…

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a month ago · 1 like · Cecelia Proffit

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Becoming One

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Our guests are Kathryn and Bob Sonntag, who joined us at Restore last year for a powerful session on ritual, wisdom, and our Divine Mother. Today, we’re bringing that conversation to everyone.

Together, we explore where the symbol of the Mother appears in ancient Christian traditions and grapple honestly with what divine femininity and divine masculinity look like when we strip away the stereotypes that can become rigid and prescriptive. As Kathryn says, the feminine is, by its nature, subtle and hidden—something that has to be cultivated with intention. And when souls or systems overdevelop the masculine and lose touch with feminine wisdom (or vice versa), something essential goes missing. Neither the masculine nor the feminine can truly flourish without the other.

We spend time on practical integration. Bob says that ritual is the way we translate meaning into action—the way spiritual truths become lived realities. And he says that ritual isn’t reserved for temples or holy days, but is available in the texture of ordinary life—in hospitality, shared meals, and the quiet rhythms of each day. When we bring intention to those moments, the mundane becomes sacred, and the deeper work of integration and transformation can take root.

This one is for Mother’s Day, and for anyone ready to engage in this deep inner work. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Kathryn and Bob Sonntag.

You can read more from Kathryn in her book, The Mother Tree, which is available on Amazon and at wayfaremagazine.org. You can read more from Bob at wayfaremagazine.org.

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CELEBRATING OUR DIVINE MOTHER

CELEBRATE MOTHER’S DAY WITH WAYFARE

A subscription to Wayfare would make a beautiful Mother’s Day gift! Become a paid Wayfare subscriber or Faith Matters donor in her name today and we’ll send Issue 7 now and Issue 8 in the fall. Get a peek inside the newest issue below, and email info@faithmatters.org if you have any questions about your subscription or a gift subscription.

Subscribe for 20% off today

If you are already a paid Wayfare subscriber or Friend of Faith Matters donor, you should have seen your copy of Issue 7 arrive this week—please email us ASAP if you haven’t seen it yet and we’ll make sure you’re on the list for the next shipment!

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AN INVITATION FROM THOMAS MCCONKIE

Friends,

My wife, Gloria, and I have been holding this community together for over a decade — through seasons of growth, confusion, grief, and joy. And one of the questions that keeps returning to us is this: are we doing justice to both the masculine and feminine styles of spirituality that seek expression through this community?

We’ve learned a lot. We’ve struggled a lot. But I think we’ve struggled well. And this month, we’d like to open up the conversation more to the community.

One question we’re holding, among others, is what would a spiritual community look like if both masculine and feminine energies were valued and fully expressed? We’re not posing this as an abstraction — we’re asking how we, as the Lower Lights community, can continue to live into this question together.

We hope you’ll join us at Bell Hall on May 13th to begin this exploration — an evening of chant, meditation, and soulful conversation.

Love,

Thomas

When: Wednesday, May 13th, 7:30-9pm
Where: Bell Hall (389 East 1st Avenue), Salt Lake City
Who: Anyone looking for authentic spiritual companionship on the journey Home.
Registration required via the following link:

REGISTER HERE

*Please note that due to capacity restrictions at Bell Hall, 𝐫𝐞𝐠𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐢𝐬 𝐫𝐞𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐰𝐡𝐨 𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐧 𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐝. We will have a check in at the door to confirm registration, so we recommend arriving early if you can! Please plan on street parking.

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Research suggests that roughly 40% of formerly active, faithful members have stepped away from the Church in the last twenty-five years—and the pace is accelerating. Jeff Strong is asking why. Drawing on hundreds of interviews, he’s found that, again and again, disaffiliation is rooted in unmet spiritual needs, strained trust, and experiences of exclusion or spiritual starvation. Jeff’s book is unflinchingly honest—and genuinely hopeful, because if culture is part of the problem, there’s also something all of us can do to help.

In this conversation, Jeff really challenges the assumption that people leave casually. His data shows that, on average, most people wrestle for nearly a decade before stepping away. These are sincere, often private, and deeply painful journeys that deserve to be understood with care.

Jeff says that what we need are not more gatekeepers, but more gardeners. He suggests our role isn’t to monitor who’s in or out—or how “in” or “out” anyone is—but to tend the kind of soil where faith can grow: in our homes, our wards, and our relationships.

He helps us recognize when that soil has become compacted or depleted of spiritual nutrients, and offers practical, grounded ways for everyday members and leaders to cultivate something more nourishing—a more Christ-centered culture where more people can grow and flourish.

We are so excited for you to read this book and hear the conversation. You can read the introduction and first two chapters, check out the appendix, and learn more about the research on Jeff’s website, tornbyjeffstrong.com.

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WAYFARE ISSUE 7 IS ARRIVING

Wayfare Issue 7 is all about trust—trust in ourselves, trust in God, and trust in each other—and centers women’s voices and experiences with this topic. A subscription to Wayfare would make a beautiful Mother’s Day gift! Become a paid Wayfare subscriber or Faith Matters donor in their name today and we’ll send Issue 7 now and Issue 8 in the fall. Get a peek inside the newest issue below, and email info@faithmatters.org if you have any questions about your subscription or a gift subscription.

Subscribe for 20% off today

If you are already a paid Wayfare subscriber or Friend of Faith Matters donor, you should see your copy arrive this week—please email us if you haven’t seen it by May 10 and we’ll make sure you’re on the list for the next shipment on May 11!

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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FAITH MATTERS BENEFIT ART AUCTION

When: Saturday, May 9th at 7:00 PM

Where: The Compass Gallery (250 W. Center St., Provo)

Highlights: Live auction of featured works, silent auction bidding, mocktails and hors d’oeuvres, live music.

LEARN MORE AND RSVP

Faith Matters needs your support for our Benefit Art Auction at The Compass Gallery. It will be an evening of art, connection, and giving, where you’ll have access to one-of-kind art we think you’ll treasure for years to come. Here at Faith Matters, we work to promote a vibrant, nourishing faith and we hope you’ll partner with us.

Can’t make it but still want to support Faith Matters? You can donate directly via DonorBox here:

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Our guest, Deidre Nicole Green, is a professor at Graduate Theological Union; a theologian and scholar whose work explores gender, faith, and the Christian life. The starting place for this discussion was Deidre’s just-released Wayfare Magazine article called “Envying Hannah.”

At the center of the conversation is a concept called epistemic confidence—a trust in our capacity to receive and recognize truth for ourselves. And while this shows up differently for each of us, research suggests it doesn’t fall evenly. Women, in particular, are often more likely to feel that their knowing needs to be confirmed or mediated by someone with more authority before it really counts.

Deidre helps us see how quickly this gets complicated, especially at church—where the line between agency and people-pleasing can blur without us even realizing it. She invites us to ask harder questions: when does deference begin to erode our connection to the divine? When are we silencing something sacred within ourselves?

And maybe most importantly, what becomes possible when we show up differently—when we act with courage, claim our spiritual authority and sacred agency, and allow ourselves to be fully seen and known… even if it means risking being wrong?

You can read Deidre’s piece, “Envying Hannah: Risking Respectability for Spiritual Fidelity“ in Issue 7 of Wayfare or online at WayfareMagazine.org now, and you can get a sneak peek inside the issue (including two more essays!) here. You can also read “Finding Truth Together: Epistemic Humility in the Book of Jacob,” an excerpt from Deidre’s book “Jacob: A Brief Theological Introduction“ on WayfareMagazine.org.

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GIVE WAYFARE ISSUE 7 FOR MOTHER’S DAY

Wayfare Issue 7 is all about this concept of trust—trust in ourselves, trust in God, and trust in each other—and it centers women’s voices and experiences with this topic. A subscription to Wayfare would make a beautiful Mother’s Day gift! Become a paid Wayfare subscriber or Faith Matters donor today and we’ll send Issue 7 now, and Issue 8 in the fall. Get a peek inside the newest issue (including links to three more essays) below, and email info@faithmatters.org if you have any questions about your subscription or a gift subscription.

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Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

An Evolving Relationship with Obedience: A conversation with Jennifer Finlayson-Fife

I was so grateful to have the pleasure to speak with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for this episode.. This conversation is another exploration of covenants, but from the framework of the stages of development. This episode begins with Jennifer introducing the three stages of development she describes in her work, and from there she helps us get a feel for…

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4 months ago · 6 likes · Cecelia Proffit

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His new memoir is called Work in Progress: Confessions of a Busboy, Dishwasher, Caddy, Usher, Factory Worker, Bank Teller, Corporate Tool, and Priest. And yes, he held every one of those jobs before he found his calling. But beneath the laughs, this book is really about the slow, unglamorous, often uncomfortable work of transformation.

In our conversation today, Father Jim talks about growing up desperate to be liked—and what it took to become someone willing to speak up and make waves when it matters. We talk about the difference between kindness and people-pleasing, about staying connected to religious institutions that can both nourish and wound us, and why he believes doubt is a natural part of a living, growing faith.

In a moment when so many public voices feel reactive and divisive, Father Jim stands in conviction without losing compassion—offering a steady, grounded wisdom that feels deeply needed right now.

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Raising Little Saints: A Faith Matters Family Night

May 1, 2026 | 6-7:15pm | Kiwanis Park in Provo (the big pavilion)

Nurturing deep faith without fundamentalism.

An evening of music, storytelling, and connection designed for families—both parents and kids.

What to expect:

• Live music with Emily Susan Pack

• Short, inspiring reflections on faith and family from Whitney Call and Lauren Yarro

• Food and community building

• Simple activities for kids (movement welcome)

Bring your kids exactly as they are. No perfect behavior or faith required.

Spots are limited, so do please RSVP.

RSVP

STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

To receive Come Follow Me resource roundups from Faith Matters in your inbox, first be sure you are subscribed to the Faith Matters Substack, then go to manage your subscription and turn on notifications for “Come Follow Me”.

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GIVE WAYFARE ISSUE 7 FOR MOTHER’S DAY

Give a gift subscription to Wayfare to someone you love this week! Get a peek inside the newest issue here:

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Subscribe to Wayfare

FAITH MATTERS BENEFIT ART AUCTION

When: Saturday, May 9th at 7:00 PM

Where: The Compass Gallery (250 W. Center St., Provo)

Highlights: Live auction of featured works, silent auction bidding, mocktails and hors d'oeuvres, live music.

LEARN MORE AND RSVP

Faith Matters needs your support for our Benefit Art Auction at The Compass Gallery. It will be an evening of art, connection, and giving, where you’ll have access to one-of-kind art we think you’ll treasure for years to come. Here at Faith Matters, we work to promote a vibrant, nourishing faith and we hope you’ll partner with us.

Can’t make it but still want to support Faith Matters? You can donate directly via DonorBox here:

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Today, we’re joined by pastor, author, and researcher Meredith Miller, who has spent her career thoughtfully engaging these questions. Her book, Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn’t Have to Heal From, offers a grounded and practical guide for what this can look like.

Meredith invites us to move away from rigid faith metaphors like walls and foundations, and instead to see faith more like a web—flexible, resilient, and uniquely woven for each person. That shift opens up a much more spacious way of thinking about what it means to guide our kids spiritually.

Anchoring this conversation is her distinction between obedience-based and trust-based faith. Meredith makes a compelling case that trust must come first—that obedience, when it matters, grows naturally out of a relationship with a God we’ve come to know and trust, rather than fear.

We also talk about how to approach scripture with kids, what her research revealed about the strengths of a Latter-Day Saint ward-based model, the value of family warmth, and why “I don’t know” can be a great answer.

This conversation was a steadying reminder for us that while we can’t control how our kid’s faith unfolds, we can trust that God is already at work in their lives. We hope this episode gives you both some practical tools and a little more peace for the long, slow work nourishing a faith your kid doesn’t need to heal from.

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Meredith's book Woven on Bookshop.org

Meredith's book Woven on Amazon

You can also find Meredith’s new book Wonder: 52 Conversations to Help Kids Fall in Love with Scripture on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

Raising Little Saints: A Faith Matters Family Night

May 1, 2026 | 6-7:15pm | Kiwanis Park in Provo (the big pavilion)

Nurturing deep faith without fundamentalism.

An evening of music, storytelling, and connection designed for families—both parents and kids.

What to expect:

• Live music with Emily Susan Pack

• Short, inspiring reflections on faith and family from Whitney Call and Lauren Yarro

• Food and community building

• Simple activities for kids (movement welcome)

Bring your kids exactly as they are. No perfect behavior or faith required.

Spots are limited, so do please RSVP below.

RSVP

MORE ON THIS TOPIC

STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

To receive Come Follow Me resource roundups from Faith Matters in your inbox, first be sure you are subscribed to the Faith Matters Substack, then go to manage your subscription and turn on notifications for “Come Follow Me”.

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GIVE WAYFARE ISSUE 7 FOR MOTHER’S DAY

Give a gift subscription to Wayfare this week to be sure it arrives in time for Mother’s Day! Get a peek inside the issue here:

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OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT A FAITH MATTERS VOLUNTEER

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We sat down with two longtime friends of the podcast—authors and researchers Joseph Grenny and Jeff Strong—to explore these high-stakes moments when someone is ready to talk about their shifting faith.

Drawing on research from over 500 real-life conversations about faith transitions, Joseph and Jeff uncover something both surprising and sobering: statistically, it’s devout parents and church leaders who are most likely to miss the mark in these conversations.

They suggest this isn’t about a lack of love or sincerity—but consequences of a very natural response to fear. Jeff and Joseph call it a TUI—talking under the influence. When the amygdala takes over, stress floods the system, and the thinking brain goes offline. What looks like a communication problem is actually a chemical one, and even the most well-intentioned among us can say things that damage relationships for years.

But it doesn’t have to be that way. Today, Joseph and Jeff show us how to recognize when we’re under the influence, how to pause before we cause harm, and how to come back grounded and clear—so that we can choose connection over control, curiosity over fear.

With General Conference and Easter this weekend—seasons that bring families together and open the door naturally, to these conversations—we hope this episode reminds you that you’re not alone, and that these hard moments, can become the fertile ground for relationships that are deeper, more honest, and more connected than they were before.

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Lower Lights In-Person Gathering | Wednesday, April 8th | 7:30-9 pm | Salt Lake City, UT

Most of us are a little lonely, even in a crowd.

We long to be truly known — and yet something in us resists it. To be seen is to risk being rejected. To open ourselves is to expose our most tender places. So we keep a careful distance, even from the people and the divine presence we most want to draw near.

In spiritual life, we name this honestly: we are ambivalent about intimacy. And then, we move into a greater vulnerability anyway.

On April 8th, we invite you to join us at Bell Hall — in song, in meditation, and in authentic contact with each other. To risk seeing others, and being seen in turn.

Love,

Thomas

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OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT A FAITH MATTERS VOLUNTEER

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Today, we’re joined by Terryl Givens to explore an extraordinary book called The Stature of Waiting by W.H. Vanstone. Vanstone noticed something hiding in plain sight in the gospel accounts of the last week of Jesus’s life. Up until a certain moment, Jesus is the one acting—teaching, healing, feeding, leading. And then, almost imperceptibly, the grammar of the story shifts. He is no longer the one doing, but the one to whom things are done. He is handed over. He waits. He receives. And Vanstone suggests this isn’t a tragic turn in the story—it’s its deepest revelation.

Terryl and Fiona introduced many of us to the God who weeps in Moses 7. In Vanstone, we meet that same vulnerable God again—this time, waiting. And we ask what it means to follow that God in how we love, how we age, how we suffer, and how we let ourselves be carried.

We hope that as you move through Holy Week this year, this conversation helps see the face of God in the most vulnerable moments of the Easter story — and in your own.

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OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT A FAITH MATTERS VOLUNTEER

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If you haven’t discovered it yet, Article 13 is one of the most beautifully produced things Faith Matters does. The title comes from the thirteenth Article of Faith and that really captures the spirit of seeking that you’ll experience in these episodes. These are rich, deeply researched explorations that bring together cutting-edge scholarship and spiritual wisdom to ask big questions about how we live.

In today’s episode, drawing on research from thinkers like Seth Kaplan and Pete Davis, we hear a compelling case that one of the central challenges of our time is a growing fear of commitment.

Our culture tells us that the best life is the one where we keep our options open. But the irony is that the things that make life richest—friendships, tight-knit neighborhoods, shared projects, belonging—become possible when we choose to commit to one another. Real, rooted, showing-up-again-and-again community.

Even though our tradition is built around covenant relationships, we’re living in the same cultural waters that pull toward busyness, mobility, and individualism.

This episode is both a diagnosis and an invitation. It’s full of ideas and stories that might make you want to knock on a neighbor’s door, join something local, or start something in your own community.

We hope it sends you back to your people—your neighbors, your ward, your community—with a little more fire.

And with that, here’s Article 13.

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OPPORTUNITY TO SUPPORT A FAITH MATTERS VOLUNTEER

NEW COURSE FROM THOMAS MCCONKIE AND LOWER LIGHTS

One Heart One Mind

Creating a Rule of Life: The True Monastery is Within

We’re excited to share that registration is now open for our Rule of Life course—a 5-week exploration in creating a deep and authentic spiritual rhythm for daily living…

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4 months ago

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Our guest today is Riley Risto, director of Latter-day Peace Studies, who joined the Church after a powerful mystical experience while praying about the Book of Mormon, an experience that centered his faith on Jesus and shaped his lifelong effort to take Christ’s teachings seriously in a world—and a Bible—full of violence and conflict.

In this episode, Riley invites us to engage scripture through what’s often called a cruciform lens—the idea that, if Jesus gives us the clearest picture of who God is, then his life and teachings should shape how we understand every Bible story. Instead of letting the most troubling passages define our image of God, we begin with Christ and the cross and allow his life—and his radical call to love our enemies—to guide the way we wrestle with the rest.

Along the way we explore what René Girard’s work on scapegoating might reveal about violence in scripture, what it might really mean to “take the Lord’s name in vain,” and what a Christ-centered reading could mean about justice.

Underneath it all is the conviction that we’re not meant to be casual observers of scripture, but participants—trusting that honest wrestling can refine our faith and discipleship. For us, this cruciform lens has sparked new curiosity and breathed new life into our scripture study this year, and we’re excited to share it with you.

If conversations like this are resonating with you, we’d love to invite you to explore more of the work we’re doing at Faith Matters. One podcast you might especially enjoy is Proclaim Peace, a joint project from Faith Matters and Mormon Women for Ethical Government.

Hosted by Jennifer Thomas and Patrick Mason, Proclaim Peace explores what it might look like to read scripture through a lens of peace—and how those teachings can shape the way we live, engage conflict, and show up in the world.

If this episode sparked something for you, we invite you to subscribe to Proclaim Peace on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. We think you’ll really appreciate the thoughtful conversations happening there.

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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CATCH UP WITH WAYFARE

Issue 7 will be mailed out soon! Become a Friend of Faith Matters or Wayfare paid subscriber by March 31 to receive your copy in the mail!

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NEW COURSE FROM THOMAS MCCONKIE AND LOWER LIGHTS

One Heart One Mind

Creating a Rule of Life: The True Monastery is Within

We’re excited to share that registration is now open for our Rule of Life course—a 5-week exploration in creating a deep and authentic spiritual rhythm for daily living…

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4 months ago

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Our guests are Lisa Valentine Clark, a comedian, actor, and host of The Lisa Show, and James Rees—artist, educator, researcher, and passionate advocate for the arts.

Both Lisa and James have spent their lives creating—in front of audiences on stages, in studios, in classrooms—and they’ve come to see that creativity does sacred work inside us. It gives form to what we’re wrestling with. It helps us clarify what we think and feel. It helps us metabolize the unexpected. It draws us into deeper presence.

For Lisa, these insights became intensely practical. She shares the foundational rule of improv, “yes, and”: accept what’s given and build from it. This principle became a discipline that helped carry her through the hardest season of her life.

Throughout the episode, we return again and again to the role of vulnerability—the courage to begin before you feel ready, to quiet the inner critic, and to let something take shape before you judge it. It’s this openness that makes growth possible.

We hope this conversation expands the way you think about creativity and moves you to notice the ways you’re already being invited to practice it.

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Let Us Bow Our Heads and Play: Towards an LDS Theology of Play

I find it amusing that the most chipper hymn in Latter-day Saint hymnody is a paean to putting your nose to the grindstone: “We all have work; let no one shirk. Put your shoulder to the wheel…

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a year ago · 5 likes · Corey Landon Wozniak

The Soloists

Is Aging Really the Worst Thing Ever? with Lisa Valentine Clark

Send us a text…

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2 years ago · The Soloists

STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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NEW EPISODE OF SANCTUARY

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

Why Ritual?: A conversation with Matthew Bowman

This conversation with Matt was one of my favorites. I am endlessly fascinated by ritual. Why have humans, since seemingly the beginning of time, performed rituals? I want to understand the role ritual plays in my life, in my community, and in the world. I have wrestled with it. I have hated it. I have been transformed by it. I have come to deeply love …

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3 months ago · 2 likes · Cecelia Proffit

SUBMIT YOUR ARTWORK

The Compass Gallery invites artists of all faiths and spiritual traditions to submit work for a special interfaith feature at the Salt Lake Art Show this May. Share art that explores belief, devotion, mystery, or the search for meaning across traditions and perspectives. Submissions are due April 15 — we can’t wait to see what you bring to the conversation!

LEARN MORE

NEW COURSE FROM THOMAS MCCONKIE AND LOWER LIGHTS

One Heart One Mind

Creating a Rule of Life: The True Monastery is Within

We’re excited to share that registration is now open for our Rule of Life course—a 5-week exploration in creating a deep and authentic spiritual rhythm for daily living…

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4 months ago

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As a young missionary, Tucker fell in love with teaching the gospel and knew he wanted to become a full-time seminary teacher. He stepped into that role with his whole heart, and years later pursued a PhD, hoping to become an even better, more thoughtful teacher. But during his doctoral research into early Church history, his certainty began to fracture. And before long, the ground beneath him seemed to give way. His work, his community, his family—his entire life—was built around the faith he was now struggling to hold.

And for the first time, Tucker wondered if he belonged. He describes sitting in church—once his sanctuary—and feeling his body surge into fight or flight. But in time, he learned that what felt like collapse was the beginning of a deeper, more conscious faith.

Today, Tucker shares how that unraveling became an invitation into transformation. And though the questions didn’t disappear, his relationship to them changed. The groundlessness opened into something more spacious and alive, expanding his capacity for love, humility, and connection.

Whether you’re in the middle of your own wrestle, loving someone through theirs, or simply trying to build a faith that can hold complexity, we think Tucker offers language and light for the journey.

If you or someone you love is navigating a faith journey you can check out Tucker’s organization at harmonyroadretreats.com. Tucker created these retreats to offer the kind of support and community he needed—spaces where you can feel less alone, where you can connect with others on the road, and explore practices that cultivate inner harmony and peace. He has retreats coming up in both March and April, and you can find all the details on the website.

As always, thank you so much for listening—we’re so glad you’re here.

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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NEW EPISODE OF SANCTUARY

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

An Evolving Relationship with Obedience: A conversation with Jennifer Finlayson-Fife

I was so grateful to have the pleasure to speak with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for this episode.. This conversation is another exploration of covenants, but from the framework of the stages of development. This episode begins with Jennifer introducing the three stages of development she describes in her work, and from there she helps us get a feel for…

Listen now

4 months ago · 2 likes · Cecelia Proffit

SUBMIT YOUR ARTWORK

The Compass Gallery invites artists of all faiths and spiritual traditions to submit work for a special interfaith feature at the Salt Lake Art Show this May. Share art that explores belief, devotion, mystery, or the search for meaning across traditions and perspectives. Submissions are due April 15 — we can’t wait to see what you bring to the conversation!

LEARN MORE

A NEW COURSE FROM THOMAS MCCONKIE

One Heart One Mind

Creating a Rule of Life: The True Monastery is Within

We’re excited to share that registration is now open for our Rule of Life course—a 5-week exploration in creating a deep and authentic spiritual rhythm for daily living…

Read more

4 months ago

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Today, Teresa invites us to reconsider one of the most central words in Christianity: faith. She explains that for the first generations of Christians, “faith” didn’t mean signing on to a list of beliefs. It meant something more like trust—faithfulness, trustworthiness, the act of entrusting your life to God. Faith was less about what you thought and more about the kind of relationship you were living: a daily, embodied trust in a faithful God.

But over time, as outside pressures mounted, Christian leaders drew clearer boundaries around belief. Creeds became markers of belonging, and faith—once rooted primarily in trust and lived allegiance—was increasingly defined by agreement with specific doctrines. That shift has shaped the Christian imagination ever since.

In this conversation, Zach and Teresa explore how that evolution happened, what may have been lost, and what it might look like to recover a richer, more relational vision of faith today.

We also want to mention that this interview is featured in the upcoming Issue 7 of Wayfare, and that this is a special edition centering women’s voices on the theme of trust—trust in God, in ourselves, and in our communities. It’s a beautiful and thoughtful collection that we are really proud of. You can read the adapted transcript of this interview, and see the artwork that will accompany it in the magazine, in a special preview on WayfareMagazine.org.

If you’d like to receive your own copy of Wayfare in the mail, you can become a Friend of Faith Matters or a paid Wayfare subscriber by March 31. Your support is what makes conversations like this possible, and we’re so grateful.

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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NEW EPISODE OF SANCTUARY

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

An Evolving Relationship with Obedience: A conversation with Jennifer Finlayson-Fife

I was so grateful to have the pleasure to speak with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for this episode.. This conversation is another exploration of covenants, but from the framework of the stages of development. This episode begins with Jennifer introducing the three stages of development she describes in her work, and from there she helps us get a feel for…

Listen now

4 months ago · 2 likes · Cecelia Proffit

SUBMIT YOUR ARTWORK

The Compass Gallery invites artists of all faiths and spiritual traditions to submit work for a special interfaith feature at the Salt Lake Art Show this May. Share art that explores belief, devotion, mystery, or the search for meaning across traditions and perspectives. Submissions are due April 15 — we can’t wait to see what you bring to the conversation!

LEARN MORE

A NEW COURSE FROM THOMAS MCCONKIE

One Heart One Mind

Creating a Rule of Life: The True Monastery is Within

We’re excited to share that registration is now open for our Rule of Life course—a 5-week exploration in creating a deep and authentic spiritual rhythm for daily living…

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4 months ago

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In this conversation, Bruce dives into some of the ideas in the book. He explores how to make peace with being human. He looks at two seemingly opposing paths—both Western and Eastern wisdom—and shows how each offers a vital piece of the puzzle. Where psychotherapy may teach us to bring our early wounds and disowned emotions into awareness, Buddhist practices help us recognize the deeper freedom that’s available when we stop identifying with the fixed self.

We loved that Bruce talked us through the ways we organize around our core fears, why so many of our childhood survival strategies still run the show in adulthood, and why real freedom often begins with simply allowing ourselves to feel uncomfortable without trying to fix or escape.

Bruce’s insights feel so useful for navigating seasons of growth—emotional, spiritual, and relational.

This conversation really helped us see that personal growth isn’t about achieving some ideal version of ourselves—it’s about meeting our actual experience with curiosity, compassion, and presence. We found Bruce’s wisdom to be gentle, honest, and deeply liberating, and we’re so grateful he joined us.

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At-One-Ment book

One Heart One Mind

A podcast and sacred space where you can come to rest, deepen your connection with the Divine, and let your heart be as big as it actually is.

By Faith Matters

That We Might Have Joy book

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LISTEN TO A NEW EPISODE OF SANCTUARY!

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

The Extraordinary Gift of Life: An exploration of covenants with George Handley

Gosh, I really can’t express how much I loved this conversation with George. It felt like a celebration of life—and an invitation to live and love it more fully. This conversation explores the five covenants we make in the temple, with particular emphasis on the first and the last: obedience and consecration. George shares his personal journey of coming…

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4 months ago · 7 likes · Cecelia Proffit

GOSPEL MEETS DHARMA MEDITATION RETREAT

Putting on the Mind of Christ and Exploring Buddha Nature Through Meditative Practice

Join Thomas McConkie and Lower Lights for a 3-day meditation retreat in Salt Lake City, Utah, February 27-March 1.

This retreat will include:

• Copious amounts of meditation!

• Mindful walking, eating, and interacting with like-hearted pilgrims

• A nourishing lunch provided each day

• Detailed instruction and lecture on Buddhist and Christian approaches to meditation

• Time in nature

• An ongoing invitation to weave yourself into a community that walks the inner path

You will love this meditation retreat if:

• You sense that the Christian tradition is more expansive than what you were taught to believe.

• You prefer soul work to Netflix, but damn if it ain’t hard doing soul work alone.

• You want to bring wisdom teachings to life through shared reading and practice

• You trust silence, nature, and community to help you heal and grow.

• You want to suck the marrow out of life. (Hat tip to Henry David Thoreau).

Thomas McConkie has been practicing in Buddhist meditation and Christian contemplation for over 25 years. He holds a master’s degree from Harvard Divinity School in transformative practice and envisions a renaissance in consciousness on the Wasatch Front.

LEARN MORE

FEBRUARY ONLINE MINI RETREAT WITH THOMAS MCCONKIE

Saturday, February 21st | 7-11 am MST

This month, I’d like to return to my original intention of exploring “rhythms of practice.”

Whether we take after St. Paul and “pray always”, cultivate unbroken awareness via Buddhist training, or Sufi-style, fan the flames of tawqā, remaining ever present to God’s Reality, there is an invitation in the Wisdom traditions to live in an abiding state of Grace and Wakefulness.

But how? The mind is unruly and modern life so fragmenting.

On February 21st, we will continue to deepen our exploration of the rule of life—establishing rhythms of practice to sustain us throughout the day and night. Specifically, we’ll pay attention to continuous meditation practice and basic strategies to help make this awesome shift in awareness.

Love,
Thomas

You can register here for $55 (registration must be completed by 7 PM MST the evening prior to the retreat to ensure you receive the link to join.)

We recognize that four hours on a Saturday morning is an investment. If questions are arising about format and/or time commitment, reach out to us at info@lowerlightswisdom.org—we’re happy to help you discern if this is right for you.

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The Old Testament can be incredibly rich—full of beauty, poetry, and profound spiritual insights. But it can also sometimes feel bewildering or even faith-shaking. We get glimpses of a loving, nurturing God—and turn the page to encounter a God that seems angry, even violent. It’s a text that raises big questions and invites us into deep wrestles. And maybe that’s part of its sacredness—that it pushes us into such honest, meaningful conversation.

In this episode, Terryl helps us navigate those tensions. Together, we ask: What is the Bible, really, and where did it come from? What do different translations of this text have to offer, and how can we engage with this scripture in a posture of reverence and discernment that allows for mystery, and honors the sacredness of the whole landscape.

We loved Terryl’s insights in this conversation, and we’re so grateful to revisit them now. Thanks so much for listening—we hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

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JOIN US FOR SEASON 2 OF PROCLAIM PEACE!

JOIN US FOR SEASON 2!

GOSPEL MEETS DHARMA MEDITATION RETREAT

Putting on the Mind of Christ and Exploring Buddha Nature Through Meditative Practice

Join Thomas McConkie and Lower Lights for a 3-day meditation retreat in Salt Lake City, Utah, February 27-March 1.

This retreat will include:

• Copious amounts of meditation!

• Mindful walking, eating, and interacting with like-hearted pilgrims

• A nourishing lunch provided each day

• Detailed instruction and lecture on Buddhist and Christian approaches to meditation

• Time in nature

• An ongoing invitation to weave yourself into a community that walks the inner path

You will love this meditation retreat if:

• You sense that the Christian tradition is more expansive than what you were taught to believe.

• You prefer soul work to Netflix, but damn if it ain’t hard doing soul work alone.

• You want to bring wisdom teachings to life through shared reading and practice

• You trust silence, nature, and community to help you heal and grow.

• You want to suck the marrow out of life. (Hat tip to Henry David Thoreau).

Thomas McConkie has been practicing in Buddhist meditation and Christian contemplation for over 25 years. He holds a master’s degree from Harvard Divinity School in transformative practice and envisions a renaissance in consciousness on the Wasatch Front.

LEARN MORE

JOIN THOMAS MCCONKIE FOR A COMMUNITY GATHERING

Wednesday, February 11th
7:30-9 pm
Bell Hall, SLC, Utah

Many of us have been formed—beautifully and painfully—by high-demand religion. We know its gifts: devotion, discipline, shared purpose, and lives oriented toward something greater than the self. We also know its shadows, especially when commitment becomes coercion, or belonging requires self-silencing.

At our upcoming community gathering in Salt Lake City, we will reflect together on the difference between high-demand religion and what we’re calling high-integrity spirituality—a way of practicing that preserves depth and rigor while honoring conscience, consent, and the authority of lived experience.

Through chant, sacred silence and shared inquiry, we’ll explore how to embrace the best of what we’ve been given without repeating its harm—and how a life of prayer and meditation can form courage, wisdom, and moral clarity for the world we’re being asked to meet now.

Come curious. Come as you are.

Love,
Thomas

Open to all. Registration required: https://lowerlightswisdom.org/classes/p/monthly-gathering-feb

*Please note that due to capacity restrictions at Bell Hall, registration is required for all who plan to attend. We will have a check in at the door to confirm registration, so we recommend arriving early if you can! Please plan on street parking.

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The roots of this effort go back to 1872, when women began publishing the Woman’s Exponent to speak for themselves and stay connected across distance. A century later, Exponent II carried that work forward—not to create consensus, but to make room for complexity, difference, and the kind of deep listening that makes real community possible.

And that’s what this conversation is about: what it takes to stay in relationship, even when ground we used to share—whether in belief, perspective, or experience—starts to shift. We’re probably all navigating this now in some spaces, whether that be in families, wards, or friendships. And so today, Katie and Heather explore the difference between discomfort and danger, how we can sit with the tension of disagreement without walking away, and what it means to listen, not to persuade, but to witness—to be present with someone else’s experience, even when it’s different from our own.

Katie is a writer and independent scholar of women’s history. Heather is a marriage and family therapist in Orem, Utah.

This was a deeply personal conversation, and we’re so grateful to Katie and Heather for showing up with such honesty and care. Their own lived experiences have led them down different paths, and it was a gift to sit with them in dialogue—watching the ways they do this together and make space for others to do the same. That kind of wisdom is hard won, and we’re honored to share it with you now.

You can find their book, 50 Years of Exponent II, on Amazon, Bookshop.org, or wherever books are sold.

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STUDY “COME FOLLOW ME” WITH FAITH MATTERS

To receive Come Follow Me resource roundups from Faith Matters in your inbox, first be sure you are subscribed to the Faith Matters Substack, then go to manage your subscription and turn on notifications for “Come Follow Me”.

Subscribe now

RSVP

JOIN US FOR SEASON 2 OF PROCLAIM PEACE!

JOIN US FOR SEASON 2!

FEBRUARY 27-MARCH 1 - GOSPEL MEETS DHARMA MEDITATION RETREAT

Putting on the Mind of Christ and Exploring Buddha Nature Through Meditative Practice

Join Thomas McConkie and Lower Lights for a 3-day meditation retreat in Salt Lake City, Utah.

This retreat will include:

• Copious amounts of meditation!

• Mindful walking, eating, and interacting with like-hearted pilgrims

• A nourishing lunch provided each day

• Detailed instruction and lecture on Buddhist and Christian approaches to meditation

• Time in nature

• An ongoing invitation to weave yourself into a community that walks the inner path

You will love this meditation retreat if:

• You sense that the Christian tradition is more expansive than what you were taught to believe.

• You prefer soul work to Netflix, but damn if it ain’t hard doing soul work alone.

• You want to bring wisdom teachings to life through shared reading and practice

• You trust silence, nature, and community to help you heal and grow.

• You want to suck the marrow out of life. (Hat tip to Henry David Thoreau).

Thomas McConkie has been practicing in Buddhist meditation and Christian contemplation for over 25 years. He holds a master’s degree from Harvard Divinity School in transformative practice and envisions a renaissance in consciousness on the Wasatch Front.

LEARN MORE

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